Curse

ZenRgy · Apr 05, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Why put yourself at a disability by bringing less efficient classes?

DoA takes long enough as it is.

Evilsod · Apr 05, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

Not exactly something the dev team controls....it was the player-base who decided that this and nothing else works. There are a few out there who understand the potential of the other classes, but most everyone is stuck on the trinity or whatever it was called.

I beg to differ, the devs are the ones who made this area so stupidly 'hard' that nobody will try other professions. Shutdowns are ineffective, melee combat is completely out with things hitting for 300+, too much hiding behind walls for a ranger or paragon, and the environment effects are just completely moronic (50% miss? Seems sensible....not).

Its the devs fault that only 4 professions from the whole of GW get into this area in 95% of teams. The only reason my ranger has killed Mallyx was because we were using a monk tank most the time who needed QZ spamming. So they deserve all they get, they haven't done anything right after Sorrows Furnace and the Tombs update. The only problem with those areas is that they're quite old and have lost there touch, still fun none the less.

Just aslong as GWEN isn't a mixture of all this. No 'easy' dungeons, increasing in difficulty till we get DoA Mk II. Its an elite area, give the damn enemies more than 1 elite, not 5x damage!

Guildmaster Cain · Apr 05, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Why don't you think of a nice team-build yourself, using the non-common classes, which is actually able to survive in DoA.

I mean most enemies in DoA hit for like 300ish to 60 AL. And Dervish and Sins have 60 AL... Two hits and you are dead. And you will get a lot more hits then 2.

Why would any party in their right mind, take a so-called melee-character with inferior armor? What good could a Dervish do at all? Their damage isnt that high, its slow and they have the *woot* ability to strike at 3 targets, but foes are never close enough together.

Come up with a build that actually lasts longer then 20 seconds in DoA and you might get into a team if you tell them what you do. This pretty much means u DO NOT use Avatars. Avatars suck, they give Dervish the idea they can be gods and its all cool and leet and stuff. Which is not. Other elites are far more powerfull. Forms are only active 50%ish of time.

Evilsod · Apr 05, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

*sigh*

Dervish and Assassin has 70AL, so already i assume your sight is shorter than a blind man.

Assassins 'can' tank with the unlimited Shadow Form build, just more awkward than an obsidian tank.
Dervishes can also tank, probably better than before now VoS has a cast time buff.

Your a tank... foes are ALWAYS that close together. But considering in DoA your putting all your effort into staying alive and keeping things away from the casters, does it matter how many targets you can hit?

Do you even have a Dervish? I assume not because you just sound clueless. My avatar lasts 74 seconds w/ a +4 Mysticism switch. Which is already more than 50%, if its not DoA things are mostly dead and your moving on to the next fight. Who the hell would use Avatars in DoA outside of chest running? I think its safe to say, you suck.

Guildmaster Cain · Apr 05, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Oh man... your just a sad puppy. I bet nobody loves you...

Hmm I could say I have a Dervish and stuff and respond to your direct insults and all, but I really dont care what you think of me.

90% of the Dervishes and Assasins out there prefer doing damage over tank builds. Dervishes and Assasins wanting to do DoA are just the same, therefor only D/E and A/Me are invited in parties, because they at least can tank (hopefully). The OP was complaining about them never getting invited into parties, or only when playing a specific build.

60 or 70 armor, it doesnt matter (but please can you EVER forgive my slip of mind), it is still less then a Warrior with 100 armor, +16 shield and +40 from some skill.

And still the Dervish being able to hit 3 targets; you have the option of being:
a) a tank! but you do shit damage because all skills are defense
b) a damage dealer! but you do shit damage, because all enemies go different targets, since there is no proper tank in party

Not to mention AoE effect from Dervishes might trigger Call of Torment on multiple Torment Creatures.

And a Dervish tank using VoS would still get hurt by melee strikes which also hurt a lot... especially on a 60 AL... forgive me *w00t* 70 AL.
I dont suggest using an Avatar, but somehow people always think they pwn, even in DoA.

<Fill in some random insults and stuff here and tell Dervish has Protector title>

PS. Actually you might make a usefull comment by saying also a lot of 'socalled' Warrior tanks are crap, especially since lots of them decide to bring Eviscarate as their Elite and stuff. And to get back at the OP comment, apparently even these Warriors require a very specific build, so it does not matter wether you are Dervish or Warrior using Obsidian. Just Dervishes have a better time keeping the enchantments from the eles up. Another usefull arguement you actually forgot to mention.

PPS.. and if you actually read what is written below my name on the left, you might have refrained from useless arguements. But I forgive you, since you could forgive me for misinterpreting the armor level from sins and dervishes. Oh wait..

<insert some more insults here, because it hurts so much>

bah, you made me type so much...

<more insults because i just wasted time to respond to his>

HawkofStorms · Apr 05, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

*sigh*

Who the hell would use Avatars in DoA outside of chest running? I think its safe to say, you suck.

Wow. Just Wow. Keep it clean guys or this thread will get closed up.

captainccc · Apr 05, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

People use the "holy trinity" because they're what works.

Sorry.

True. This works. Groups arn't going to lag behind just so you and your dervish can get some playing time. Sit on the bench until someone comes up with a uber build for doa (which I highly doubt), or make your own group. Your ranting about other people not letting you in. Well then just make your own if you really want to. I'll also give you 100$ if you beat 1 area with every profession thats not in the "holy trinity".

Rakeman · Apr 05, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainccc

True. This works. Groups arn't going to lag behind just so you and your dervish can get some playing time. Sit on the bench until someone comes up with a uber build for doa (which I highly doubt), or make your own group. Your ranting about other people not letting you in. Well then just make your own if you really want to. I'll also give you 100$ if you beat 1 area with every profession thats not in the "holy trinity".

*sigh*, tis true. Anet should try to fix this up IMO.

Pariah 69 · May 05, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

I agree with Runeseeker to an extent. Sure, team-builds that deal with DoA and other high-level areas work, but seriously, while it is fun getting a 100k drop, is it really worth that single moment of glory? If I could hero/henchie high-level areas like that, I would. I myself have gotten to DoA on my Dervish, and NO ONE will accept me into a group. Even my Paragon, whom I've gotten into the Realm of Torment, can't find a group because people can't be original anymore. Now maybe the "Holy Trinity" is the only team build that works, as some have said, but what the *#(%? Why did they make it so hard for normal people, that don't have the time or money to invest in skills/builds/armour/weapons, to make decent money? I think they should even out the proffession-field a bit, make it so that there are other team-builds that work besides the "Holy Trinity", among others. And if someone says "Ask for help from your guild", half of the people in GW are either not in guilds and don't want to be, or simply can't devote too much time to create a specialized-build. Being able to farm in DoA (or other high-level areas) is not skill, it's simply where you started and who you know, or just dumb luck. Unforunately, having fun and making money at the same time is not something that happens very often in GW. Ching Chang Kapowee!

SuperDave · May 05, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkOneVK

So if using something different means it takes me a bit longer and I lose my "farming efficiency" or whatever, that's fine. Is anyone with me? (Probably not

)

I'm with ya

I for one would like to try DoA with a team that isn't set on farming. Then again, many will argue that random PUG's are a terrible waste of time. I like the randomness

And wish that areas like DoA are more accessible to all classes not just the "Trinity"

1 up and 2 down · May 05, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

With new PvE only skills coming out soon, DoA might become more accessible to the non-trinity classes. But I also have a sneaky feeling that the trinity PvE only skills will just make them even more sought after.

TRUEgamer · May 05, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

The entire reason behind the R3 requirement is the elite LB skill that is attainable at rank3.

Personally, I find it annoying that my R3LB R9SS Dervish can't do anything in DOA, but I at least understand why and, until a build comes up that utilizes a dervish, I'm enjoying other areas of the game.

Hard Mode for example.

Sol Deathgard · May 05, 2007, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caoimhe

Greed.

That's all it is; people want more/better/stronger stuff, and will do whatever they have to to get it.

So those of us who are "stupid" enough to play a non-sanctioned character get left with the prospect of buying the loot those holy ones have so painstakingly farmed... over, and, over, and over again, while we unwashed masses lurk in the zone, pleading with someone to take us with them like some lost puppy.

It's elitism and discrimination, and frankly, I find it pathetic. Try being a mesmer at Deldrimor for an Oro run. Might as well not even log in.

Form your own group? That's got to be the funniest thing I've heard today. With what? Unless you're in a huge guild with all sorts of noble sorts that are willing to help, you're more likely to get the Xunlai agent to go with you.

Logic? Sure, it's logical, if all you want to do is maximise your profit. What happened to having fun? Oh, wait. Foolish me. I forgot that this wasn't meant to be fun, it was meant to increase the size of individual egos. Instead, every trip is a profit machine; don't bother trying to help or - gasp - learn how other professions might me useful in any given area. You might waste your time, and time is money!

Will this anger some people? Probably. I have only this to say to those who get hot under the collar: Methinks the lady/gent doth protest too much.

Cynical? Yeah, maybe. Why shouldn't I, or anyone else in this kind of a situation, be cynical?

And don't give me "The right person for the job" argument; that's hogwash. If the Dev team wanted a zone to be class-specific, it would have been built that way. Instead, we have elitists making the decisions for us.

The right person for the job is a player who uses their own intelligence to play their character effectively, given any circumstances. Instead we have cookie-cutter builds where about the only differences in characters is appearance and names. Yippee. Nothing like watching the same movie, over and over again. I would find it dreadfully boring myself.

Meh.

Not much else I can say here, you read my mind.

Masseur · May 05, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Some lack the experience and skill to do these types of areas with normal balanced builds, so they go the easy route.

Jakerius · May 05, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Dervish... tank? LOL, yeah...

The comparison between Lightbringer requirements and Fame requirements is a moot argument. Lightbringer r3 is a minimum requirement because Lightbringer's Gaze is useful, not to mention the +15% against demonic servants. Fame is useless, therefore the comparison is stupid.

the_jos · May 05, 2007, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Some lack the experience and skill to do these types of areas with normal balanced builds, so they go the easy route.

Kaiz posted the 4-run balanced doa build and most teams use that now or a variation.
It's indeed easy to run if you know how and where to tank.
On the other hand, I have played with several groups that were unable to play this build, so it still requires some skill

Enemies aggro tank while the rest is out of 'sight'.
Then you unleash an huge amount of damage, including KD to make sure they stay in harmless damage, on the mob.
That's also the way the DoA environment works.
There is no subtle enemy taking out single party members.
It's a huge number at once that does nothing but an enormous amount of damage. You counter that by doing the most damage possible in a short time.

I have monked DoA a couple of times and the Tank/Nuker/Monk combination is one of the fastest ways to play.
Why would you need something like a mesmer when you can just ball the monk or other critical caster inside the mob and put Meteor Shower on them?
MS > monk.

There are alternatives for the default build, but I would not recommend those for PuGs.

Toutatis · May 05, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Why put yourself at a disability by bringing less efficient classes?

What's less efficient? The classes themselves or the way that people design and play cookie cutter builds?

The way that PvE is designed - even the so-called "elite" areas - is so that any mix of professions is capable of winning through. This game rewards skill, but where's the skill in using builds or tactics that other people have come up with? Are these elitist players really getting any sense of accomplishment out of this?

Personally, given the choice I prefer to take a mesmer over an elementalist any day. I know from experience how powerful this "less efficient" class is. And why would I want to take a healing monk when for raw healing power, I've found it's better to take a restoration ritualist 99% of the time (though I still respect that monks are far better at protection). I've even met a coupla dervishes who have been able to out-tank warriors.

So again I ask: what is less efficient?

Rocky Raccoon · May 05, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

What ever happened to having fun? This is a game, not a job where your life depends on making money. So you go to DoA with a non conforming group and you learn what works and what doesn't and you have fun doing it. What is wrong with that?

TRUEgamer · May 05, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

What ever happened to having fun? This is a game, not a job where your life depends on making money. So you go to DoA with a non conforming group and you learn what works and what doesn't and you have fun doing it. What is wrong with that?

The fact that non-conforming groups likely won't have what is required for defenses and offenses that the current build(s) in use has/have.

Rocky Raccoon · May 05, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRUEgamer

The fact that non-conforming groups likely won't have what is required for defenses and offenses that the current build(s) in use has/have.

You never know until you try, and you did say likely won't have.